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Jul. 25th, 2009 03:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
liptonrm_backupI was just outside tying up my tomato plant (it's gotten a little top heavy for the pot) only to be creeped out for a moment by its spreading branches. I love plants, but sometimes I find them enormously disturbing, like they're going to latch on to me and drain the essence from my body, or something.
I think I dreamed about Twilight last night, which is kind of lolarious seeing as I have neither seen the movie or read the book. I blame fannish osmosis for that one.
So, apparently, Russel T. Davies not only watches Supernatural but ships Sam/Dean. *cracks the fuck up* I KNEW that he wanted Jack Harkness to be Dean Winchester! I fucking KNEW IT! The entire time I watched series one I was all 'Man, all of this Jack angst would be more effective if John Barrowman was anywhere near the actor Jensen Ackles is' and now my snottiness has been vindicated!!!!
*snickers* I <3 John Barrowman something awful but, seriously, he's too much of a stage actor to be entirely effective as an angsty male lead. But then, I much prefer Jack Harkness as he was on Doctor Who and generally was on Torchwood. There were times when his manpain felt a little pastede on yay! But, you know, YMMV.
Speaking of Torchwood, I haven't watched the latest series yet and I'm not entirely sure if I ever will. The reactions I've seen are deeply reminiscent of the reactions to the BSG finale and, well, we'll see what happens. However, those reactions have reminded me of reconciliatory thoughts I've had re: the SPN season four finale, so I think I'll talk about that right now.
When last we discussed the s.4 finale I had demonstrated a decidedly meh reaction to the last 3 minutes, or so, everything from Ruby's killing to the opening of Lucifer's prison kind of rubbed me wrong. Not badly, per se, it just wasn't what I'd been expecting. I had geared myself up for something quite a bit more ruthless. Actually, I very much expected Lucifer to possess Sam and Bad Things Would Ensue. Well, actually, the screen would cut to black and leave us that way until the season 5 premiere. And I was a little disappointed when none of that happened because if it didn't happen then it wasn't going to happen. Suffice it to say,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
hiyacynth and I were not happy campers.
But I realized something a few weeks after I posted my reaction that had to do with SPN as a show and how far the writers were willing to go. You see, if they had gone that extra step they would've been taking the show to a level where I don't believe they were willing to go, and it's a level that I'm not entirely sure all the fans were willing to reach either. There wouldn't be any coming back from that and it would've made any future reconciliation between Sam&Dean exponentially more difficult. And at its core SPN is a sometimes cheesy horror-movie-a-week type of show and to go that extra step would have taken it so far beyond its raison d'etre that it may never have been able to get back there again. So Kripke&Co decided to go back to the roots of the show, Sam&Dean saving people and hunting things, and let the fans take it to that next level if they so desired.
[Which, tangentially, Baylor and I totally did. Let's just say that it involved Sam being possessed by Lucifer and Dean being possessed by the archangel Michael and Michael-in-Dean killing a fan-beloved character. It's pretty awesome, if I do say so myself.]
I got a feeling, as I read reactions to TW:Children of Earth, that RTD&Gang decided to take Torchwood to that next level, to take it beyond the rather cheesy, semi-guilty pleasure that it was and turn it into a quasi-nihlistic form of sci-fi. Granted, the dark spots had always been there in Torchwood but they had never taken over the show before, there was always even a tiny glimmer of hope there at the end, no matter how bleak things may have seemed during the episodes. It's like Joss killing Wash in Serenity, an action that made me angry on a couple of different levels but a large part of it stemmed from how unnecessary it was, from a storytelling viewpoint. It demonstrated a fundamental difference between the storytelling that I enjoy and produce and the kind that Joss Whedon creates.
Frankly, if someone has me rooting for every major character to die before the end of the film then they're doing something wrong. Or rather, they're doing creating something that I can't and never will be able to appreciate. Which is one of the many reasons that Joss Whedon is dead to me.
And I have a feeling that RTD, besides the lolarious wincest comment, is fairly dead to me as well. He already mind-raped and destroyed Donna Noble. I don't think I can stomach what he's done to Torchwood. Hell, if it weren't for a splendiferous casting spoiler I'd probably be done with Doctor Who as well. But it's got one more chance.
Anyway, to get back to the actual point of this ramble, I think Kripke&Co knowingly chose to step away from the precipice and not fundamentally alter the nature of their show. And I can respect that. It's true, I wanted Sam&Dean to be fucked up for a little while longer, but I also know that the large majority of the fans were getting restless and that the show is only ever cooking with gas when Sam&Dean are functioning as a team. When Sera Gamble called Show the 'love story of Sam and Dean' she hit a bullseye. I don't think that showrunners should always listen to the fans (because fans can be buckets of crazy) but when good, sane fans are starting to get antsy about the direction the show is taking then it may be time to reevaluate your time table. Because it's definitely possible to get too wrapped up in your own feelings of awesome.
[Tangent 2: Which illustrates why Whedon's "I give the fans what they need not what they want" is such unmitigated bullshit. No, Joss, you gave the fans what you wanted because you think you're just that amazing. If the critical reaction to what you've done is that negative then maybe it has more to do with you as a storyteller than the fans as fans. Fans, as a whole, aren't dumb and have been doing this whole critical examination of visual media thing a whole lot longer than you've been making it, jackass.]
I can respect the choice that Kripke&Co made. Heck, I can even support it wholeheartedly. Could they have gone a little bit further? Possibly, but it's hard to know how that would've turned out. My fondness for Kripke continues unabated because he actually seems to have learned the lessons of the past, both of his past and of genre television's past, and he doesn't take himself too seriously. He has a clear view of not only his abilities as a writer but of what his show is and what it definitely isn't.
I'm really pretty sure, based both on my gut and on the positive reactions to spoilers (I'm not spoiled so don't tell me anything substantive I just always enjoy seeing people's positive or negative reactions to things), that SPN season five is going to be fantastic and that I'm going to love it at least as much as I always love SPN. It's a wonderful feeling to have a show that not only makes me happy when it's on my television but also leaves so much awesome room for fanfic. Because, really, that's why we're all here anyway. ;-)
As in all things, YMMV.
ION: I think I've successfully driven off the most annoying bluejay on the face of the planet. It would sit outside my window and caw from around 4 o'clock in the morning until the middle of the afternoon. It was also enormously fat. It was so fat that it couldn't even fly, it would just kind of flutter a few feet and then waddle across the parking lot. While all of its birdy friends were in the pine tree raising a ruckus it could only hop around on the ground and drive me crazy demanding that I spread more flower seed for it to eat. I spread that seed to grow flowers, not to feed some bird.
Stupid bird. But its not the bluejay's fault that I'm not that fond of birds to begin with. They can be fun to watch at times but a fan of them I definitely am not.
Blah blah blah there you go.
I think I dreamed about Twilight last night, which is kind of lolarious seeing as I have neither seen the movie or read the book. I blame fannish osmosis for that one.
So, apparently, Russel T. Davies not only watches Supernatural but ships Sam/Dean. *cracks the fuck up* I KNEW that he wanted Jack Harkness to be Dean Winchester! I fucking KNEW IT! The entire time I watched series one I was all 'Man, all of this Jack angst would be more effective if John Barrowman was anywhere near the actor Jensen Ackles is' and now my snottiness has been vindicated!!!!
*snickers* I <3 John Barrowman something awful but, seriously, he's too much of a stage actor to be entirely effective as an angsty male lead. But then, I much prefer Jack Harkness as he was on Doctor Who and generally was on Torchwood. There were times when his manpain felt a little pastede on yay! But, you know, YMMV.
Speaking of Torchwood, I haven't watched the latest series yet and I'm not entirely sure if I ever will. The reactions I've seen are deeply reminiscent of the reactions to the BSG finale and, well, we'll see what happens. However, those reactions have reminded me of reconciliatory thoughts I've had re: the SPN season four finale, so I think I'll talk about that right now.
When last we discussed the s.4 finale I had demonstrated a decidedly meh reaction to the last 3 minutes, or so, everything from Ruby's killing to the opening of Lucifer's prison kind of rubbed me wrong. Not badly, per se, it just wasn't what I'd been expecting. I had geared myself up for something quite a bit more ruthless. Actually, I very much expected Lucifer to possess Sam and Bad Things Would Ensue. Well, actually, the screen would cut to black and leave us that way until the season 5 premiere. And I was a little disappointed when none of that happened because if it didn't happen then it wasn't going to happen. Suffice it to say,
hiyacynth and I were not happy campers.But I realized something a few weeks after I posted my reaction that had to do with SPN as a show and how far the writers were willing to go. You see, if they had gone that extra step they would've been taking the show to a level where I don't believe they were willing to go, and it's a level that I'm not entirely sure all the fans were willing to reach either. There wouldn't be any coming back from that and it would've made any future reconciliation between Sam&Dean exponentially more difficult. And at its core SPN is a sometimes cheesy horror-movie-a-week type of show and to go that extra step would have taken it so far beyond its raison d'etre that it may never have been able to get back there again. So Kripke&Co decided to go back to the roots of the show, Sam&Dean saving people and hunting things, and let the fans take it to that next level if they so desired.
[Which, tangentially, Baylor and I totally did. Let's just say that it involved Sam being possessed by Lucifer and Dean being possessed by the archangel Michael and Michael-in-Dean killing a fan-beloved character. It's pretty awesome, if I do say so myself.]
I got a feeling, as I read reactions to TW:Children of Earth, that RTD&Gang decided to take Torchwood to that next level, to take it beyond the rather cheesy, semi-guilty pleasure that it was and turn it into a quasi-nihlistic form of sci-fi. Granted, the dark spots had always been there in Torchwood but they had never taken over the show before, there was always even a tiny glimmer of hope there at the end, no matter how bleak things may have seemed during the episodes. It's like Joss killing Wash in Serenity, an action that made me angry on a couple of different levels but a large part of it stemmed from how unnecessary it was, from a storytelling viewpoint. It demonstrated a fundamental difference between the storytelling that I enjoy and produce and the kind that Joss Whedon creates.
Frankly, if someone has me rooting for every major character to die before the end of the film then they're doing something wrong. Or rather, they're doing creating something that I can't and never will be able to appreciate. Which is one of the many reasons that Joss Whedon is dead to me.
And I have a feeling that RTD, besides the lolarious wincest comment, is fairly dead to me as well. He already mind-raped and destroyed Donna Noble. I don't think I can stomach what he's done to Torchwood. Hell, if it weren't for a splendiferous casting spoiler I'd probably be done with Doctor Who as well. But it's got one more chance.
Anyway, to get back to the actual point of this ramble, I think Kripke&Co knowingly chose to step away from the precipice and not fundamentally alter the nature of their show. And I can respect that. It's true, I wanted Sam&Dean to be fucked up for a little while longer, but I also know that the large majority of the fans were getting restless and that the show is only ever cooking with gas when Sam&Dean are functioning as a team. When Sera Gamble called Show the 'love story of Sam and Dean' she hit a bullseye. I don't think that showrunners should always listen to the fans (because fans can be buckets of crazy) but when good, sane fans are starting to get antsy about the direction the show is taking then it may be time to reevaluate your time table. Because it's definitely possible to get too wrapped up in your own feelings of awesome.
[Tangent 2: Which illustrates why Whedon's "I give the fans what they need not what they want" is such unmitigated bullshit. No, Joss, you gave the fans what you wanted because you think you're just that amazing. If the critical reaction to what you've done is that negative then maybe it has more to do with you as a storyteller than the fans as fans. Fans, as a whole, aren't dumb and have been doing this whole critical examination of visual media thing a whole lot longer than you've been making it, jackass.]
I can respect the choice that Kripke&Co made. Heck, I can even support it wholeheartedly. Could they have gone a little bit further? Possibly, but it's hard to know how that would've turned out. My fondness for Kripke continues unabated because he actually seems to have learned the lessons of the past, both of his past and of genre television's past, and he doesn't take himself too seriously. He has a clear view of not only his abilities as a writer but of what his show is and what it definitely isn't.
I'm really pretty sure, based both on my gut and on the positive reactions to spoilers (I'm not spoiled so don't tell me anything substantive I just always enjoy seeing people's positive or negative reactions to things), that SPN season five is going to be fantastic and that I'm going to love it at least as much as I always love SPN. It's a wonderful feeling to have a show that not only makes me happy when it's on my television but also leaves so much awesome room for fanfic. Because, really, that's why we're all here anyway. ;-)
As in all things, YMMV.
ION: I think I've successfully driven off the most annoying bluejay on the face of the planet. It would sit outside my window and caw from around 4 o'clock in the morning until the middle of the afternoon. It was also enormously fat. It was so fat that it couldn't even fly, it would just kind of flutter a few feet and then waddle across the parking lot. While all of its birdy friends were in the pine tree raising a ruckus it could only hop around on the ground and drive me crazy demanding that I spread more flower seed for it to eat. I spread that seed to grow flowers, not to feed some bird.
Stupid bird. But its not the bluejay's fault that I'm not that fond of birds to begin with. They can be fun to watch at times but a fan of them I definitely am not.
Blah blah blah there you go.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2009-07-26 04:06 pm (UTC)Some suffering and angst, lots of conflict, is necessary and I even thrive on watching it. Character death, even that sometimes, it can remind you of how high the stakes are. But I guess I come from the Tolkienesque viewpoint of wanting always to have "the turn." SPN 4x21 was so, so painful to watch--I cried afterwards. If the finale hadn't reunited Sam&Dean, the resulting sadness and anxiousness would make the show feel more like a dutiful chore and less the show I feel in love with. Much as I appreciated the Sam&Dean conflict storyline, it was with my very strong assumption that Kripke always, always will bring them back together and that's the show I want to watch.
It's not lesser storytelling to give hope at the end. SPN works for me because it's both emotionally brutal AND hopeful and comforting.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-29 02:15 am (UTC)Yes! THIS! There's this idea that something is only "good" if it is brutal and bleak. Which, frankly, isn't the kind of world I want to live in, let alone watch on TV. As we say around here, "There is good in the world, Mr. Frodo."
I have enough dutiful chores in my life, I don't need more on my television or computer screens. Maybe that makes me cheesy and melodramatic but, strangely enough, I'm okay with that.