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Mar. 6th, 2009 01:31 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
liptonrm_backupI'm actively ignoring as many of my physical and emotional issues as I possibly can. Not a terribly good long term strategy, I know, but sometimes you've just gotta shove some things as far back as you possibly can and get on with things.
In the interests of the above strategy, I will now talk about Watchmen. I have not yet seen the movie (going tonight with fangirls) but I have read the comic and I have Opinions.
I did not grow up a comic book fan. My childhood was spent watching cartoons and PBS kids' shows with some Disney thrown in every once in a while. I didn't watch any of the early cheesy superhero tv shows and I probably didn't see a superhero movie until Burton's Batman was released on VHS or ran on TV. My parents were genre people but they swung more towards Doctor Who and Star Trek and weren't so much about the comic books, especially my mother who to this day refuses to watch any movie or tv show that's animated.
Thankfully, I did catch the animated Batman that aired when I was an adolescent because it opened up a whole world of stories that I knew nothing about. mmmm Batman ...
But, yes, anyway, that all means I never knew the world that Alan Moore apparently revolutionized with 'Watchmen' until well after the fact. And I didn't read 'Watchmen' until I read that Jeffrey Dean Morgan had been cast in it. Hence I came at the whole thing with the eye of someone who is not, primarily, a comic book fan and with John fucking Winchester in the back of my head.
I have to say, I wasn't outrageously impressed. Alan Moore can't write women and has gender issues up the wazoo, all of which shone through loud and clear. I can't think of one female character in that book that seemed to truly act on her own volition and not serve as an instrument to be acted upon. And I didn't really like any of the male characters either. It felt like a story that was so set on making its point that it failed to actually tell an interesting story. There weren't any characters I could relate to and, as we all know, that's what I need to connect to anything.
Plus, I'd already fallen head-over-heels in love with Birds of Prey and Laurie read as a pale imitation of Dinah Lance. I did not have much patience for her or her issues.
After I read Watchmen I tended to describe Edward Blake to my friends as 'John Winchester on steroids.' He's the kind of stereotypical male action hero character that a certain segment of the fanboy world splooges all over. And I know that the fangirl side of the world is about to woobify him to the extreme, especially because JDM portrays him in the movie. But to me rape is rape is rape and it's the one thing I can't forgive.
Though I say this knowing I'm a big old hypocrite. And why is that? Because everytime I see a Watchmen trailer or poster I am rendered incoherent because of the dirtywronghotness. Stupid, fucking Jeffrey Dean Morgan has this thing that makes my hindbrain sit up and pay close, personal attention. Let's just say that I made very sure to not go see this movie with anyone I'm related to because I know that my reaction is going to be downright filthy and there are some things they just don't need to know about me.
And JDM better have sent Kripke a big ol' fruit basket because there is no way in hell that Denny Duquette got this part for him.
In sum, I'm not looking for a life-changing experience from the Watchmen movie because I didn't have one from the Watchmen comic. To me the comic was convoluted and too caught up in its own pretentiousness. I expect to go to the movie tonight and have a fun time enjoying explosions and big onscreen fights and not thinking too hard about what the meaning of it all is. Because deep philosophy it ain't.
But in one regard 'Watchmen' will always have my undying gratitude. Because without it the world never would've gotten Nolan's Dark Knight and that would've been a real tragedy.
I still dream of the day when the fangirls will rise up and we'll start making our own media to enjoy. The day of the fanboy is already here and while it's brought me many things I love (LotR movies, I'm looking specifically at you) there are still a lot of stories that aren't being told. Because I don't think we'll ever get the great female superhero movies we crave until we make them ourselves.
What an awesome day that will be.
In the interests of the above strategy, I will now talk about Watchmen. I have not yet seen the movie (going tonight with fangirls) but I have read the comic and I have Opinions.
I did not grow up a comic book fan. My childhood was spent watching cartoons and PBS kids' shows with some Disney thrown in every once in a while. I didn't watch any of the early cheesy superhero tv shows and I probably didn't see a superhero movie until Burton's Batman was released on VHS or ran on TV. My parents were genre people but they swung more towards Doctor Who and Star Trek and weren't so much about the comic books, especially my mother who to this day refuses to watch any movie or tv show that's animated.
Thankfully, I did catch the animated Batman that aired when I was an adolescent because it opened up a whole world of stories that I knew nothing about. mmmm Batman ...
But, yes, anyway, that all means I never knew the world that Alan Moore apparently revolutionized with 'Watchmen' until well after the fact. And I didn't read 'Watchmen' until I read that Jeffrey Dean Morgan had been cast in it. Hence I came at the whole thing with the eye of someone who is not, primarily, a comic book fan and with John fucking Winchester in the back of my head.
I have to say, I wasn't outrageously impressed. Alan Moore can't write women and has gender issues up the wazoo, all of which shone through loud and clear. I can't think of one female character in that book that seemed to truly act on her own volition and not serve as an instrument to be acted upon. And I didn't really like any of the male characters either. It felt like a story that was so set on making its point that it failed to actually tell an interesting story. There weren't any characters I could relate to and, as we all know, that's what I need to connect to anything.
Plus, I'd already fallen head-over-heels in love with Birds of Prey and Laurie read as a pale imitation of Dinah Lance. I did not have much patience for her or her issues.
After I read Watchmen I tended to describe Edward Blake to my friends as 'John Winchester on steroids.' He's the kind of stereotypical male action hero character that a certain segment of the fanboy world splooges all over. And I know that the fangirl side of the world is about to woobify him to the extreme, especially because JDM portrays him in the movie. But to me rape is rape is rape and it's the one thing I can't forgive.
Though I say this knowing I'm a big old hypocrite. And why is that? Because everytime I see a Watchmen trailer or poster I am rendered incoherent because of the dirtywronghotness. Stupid, fucking Jeffrey Dean Morgan has this thing that makes my hindbrain sit up and pay close, personal attention. Let's just say that I made very sure to not go see this movie with anyone I'm related to because I know that my reaction is going to be downright filthy and there are some things they just don't need to know about me.
And JDM better have sent Kripke a big ol' fruit basket because there is no way in hell that Denny Duquette got this part for him.
In sum, I'm not looking for a life-changing experience from the Watchmen movie because I didn't have one from the Watchmen comic. To me the comic was convoluted and too caught up in its own pretentiousness. I expect to go to the movie tonight and have a fun time enjoying explosions and big onscreen fights and not thinking too hard about what the meaning of it all is. Because deep philosophy it ain't.
But in one regard 'Watchmen' will always have my undying gratitude. Because without it the world never would've gotten Nolan's Dark Knight and that would've been a real tragedy.
I still dream of the day when the fangirls will rise up and we'll start making our own media to enjoy. The day of the fanboy is already here and while it's brought me many things I love (LotR movies, I'm looking specifically at you) there are still a lot of stories that aren't being told. Because I don't think we'll ever get the great female superhero movies we crave until we make them ourselves.
What an awesome day that will be.
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no subject
Date: 2009-03-06 08:35 pm (UTC)I know that sounds condescending, but it's true in a way.
See, before the Watchmen, comic book heroes were basically good joes and janes. Sure, they may have messed up personal lives, but there was never any doubt that they meant well and that they really were dedicated to the concept of Truth, Justice, and the American Way™.
Even The Punisher, which I think pre-dated the Watchmen by a little bit, was screwed up as he was still had this vague sense of morality that, while not exactly in lock-step with the rest of civilized society was at least there.
The Watchmen was the first mainstream comic (I can't speak for the indie comic set) put out by a major comics company (DC) that suggested the following simple premise: it takes a special fuck-uped-ness to put on a cape, tights, and a mask to go beat up on people vigilante-style. If these people were at all sane and nice people who wanted to put bad guys behind bars, they'd be cops or they'd be FBI. They would not be caped crusaders.
So, in a way, the Watchmen was an elaborate thought experiment: If you really did have caped crusaders, what would that world really look like? The only "superhero" was really Dr. Manhattan, and his very nature (as pointed out by of all people The Comedian) meant that he was not only separated from humanity, but also viewed himself as somehow distant from it all. The rest were ordinary people who were, for one reason or another, attracted to a life in tights (so to speak) for reasons they were not entirely noble.
In fact, the closest you get to boyscouts here are Nite Owls I and II...and Nite Owl II has a weird sexual thing when it comes to the costume. Which I suppose makes Nite Owl I (the cop by day, vigilante by night) as maybe the sanest of any of the costumed set.
As for the rest: If the Comedian wasn't working for the government, he would've been on death row because the dude was nothing more than a psychopath with a badge. Silk Spectre II was looking for mommy's approval, and was just as happy to "retire" when the government came down on non-authorized masked vigilanties. Roarshark was simply nuts and possibly schizophrenic. Ozymandias is basically a kinder, gentler Comedian.
In short...*our heroes*.
But here's the thing. Before the Watchmen, no one had pointed any of this out before. I was there when it started the initial run (though to be fair I was young enough that a lot of it went over my head on my initial read), so when I say that the Watchmen blew everyone's minds when it came out, I'm speaking from first-hand experience. It not only utterly and completely deconstructed and demystified the genre, it ultimately changed everything.
Without the Watchmen, you wouldn't have the concept of Batman as the Dark Knight (before the Watchmen, he was a master detective that occasionally brushed dangerously close to kitsch), you wouldn't have Smallville, you wouldn't have the modern iteration of Iron Man. You wouldn't have a lot of elements about troubled, imperfect superheroes that skate close of the edge. These are all things that are considered almost cliched today.
I remember when even suggesting these things was considered near-sacrilege.
That said, I can completely and totally understand how someone who read the Watchmen years after it came out and after it's language had been incorporated into other comics and superhero media, might view it as a bit of bore with nothing new to add to the genre. And I can totally see how someone in that instance will be less-than-enamored of the graphic novel. It's totally understandable.
As for Moore's issues with women...*heavy sigh* I can't argue with you there. Although I will argue, at least in defense of the Watchmen, that the attitudes themselves towards women and the rape were at least appropriate for their time periods (the late 1940s for the rape and the 1980s respectively). It doesn't make it comfortable or nice, but there it is.
Doesn't take away the fact that Moore is a bit of a douchenozzle when it comes to women, though.
Seems to me...
Date: 2009-03-10 02:49 am (UTC)