(no subject)

[liptonrm_backup]

I try not to drama queen on lj, but screw it. It's not like a thousand other fangirls don't diva their way around town and don't become the biggest BNFs in BNFdom.

Actually, at the moment I'm finding myself so ridiculously fed up with the whole system we've set up in fandom that I'd rather be reading Russian novels with women who throw themselves under trains than hanging out here. Just so you know.

So here's my favorite unpopular fannish opinion: I don't care about slash. I have absolutely no opinion on it one way or another. There are tons of people who only read slash stories and there are tons of people who wouldn't read anything that even hinted at non-conventional same-sex relationships. I am in neither camp. I really and truly don't care. If I think a story is good* I'll read it and if I think it sucks I won't, the presence or non-presence of any pairing or pairings has little or nothing to do with that decision. So, yeah, I just don't care about pairings. I say pair whoever you want to your heart's content; it's your head and your heart and your character interpretation so more power to you. Or, hey, don't pair anyone at all, that's pretty awesome too.

Of course, fandom hypocrisy is pretty hilarious in this area. I just love how I've seen people out there say the equivalent of they can't read Sam/Ruby because it's rape but they love Dean/Spoilery New Character because it's rape. Make up your damn minds, please, or at the very least own your hypocrisy. To do otherwise makes you look like a moron.

I obviously have ceased caring whether the entirety of fandom thinks I'm a bitch. It's a strangely liberating sensation. Now if only I can learn to tell off the creepy guy who hangs around the mailbox I'll be golden.

* Footnote: My criteria for good fic is rather high. At the very least a fic needs basic elements like plot, coherent and consistent characterization, and decent pacing. You will not believe the number of fics I've found by good, popular authors that win the first two and lose tremendously on the last one. Let me give you a little hint, if you find yourself writing the same scene over and over again you need to sit down and think about where you want your story to go and what you want it to say. I won't say know where you're going when you start the story because every author works differently and I know I hate it when people try to tell me how to write, but writing a 60 part story that is the equivalent of 10 parts of actual plot/character development/meat interspersed with 50 parts of stagnation will cause me to personally send you a red pen. Which, in a way, is a compliment because obviously I think you've written a great story that deserves to be even more powerful.

Of course, you are absolutely free to think that I am a shitty author and have no place to criticize anyone's writing and we can agree to disagree on that opinion.

Comments

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

LoL!

I tend to stay at the fringes of fandom because I've got much the same attitude. A good story beats out every other consideration. Even things that have been known to squick me in one universe have been known to work in the right hands and another. And you're right, the urge to edit is definitely a compliment.

But I do think the whole "OTP" thing is silly...

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

OTPs are so limiting. On one hand, I can recognize and respect the romanticism that comes with an OTP but on the other hand one of the reasons I read fanfic is to explore all of the possible permutations of everything; plot, romance, character, the list could go on.

Plus, the whole battle over whose OTP is the bestest, omg, is just ridiculous. If you have an OTP there are better, more productive uses for it then trying to batter down someone else's.

And I'm so with you about how things that generally tend to squick me out can be made to work. It's all about the story.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

OTPs are the product of a whole lotta thirteen year old minds (some of them in grownup bodies) leaping into fandom with the rise of the internet. And, like Mary Sues, I think of them as a sort of pupa stage that fans tend to go through before they reach maturity. Unfortunately, thirteen year old minds are also very defensive and can only defend their choices by denigrating the choices of others.

This attitude is not exclusive to fandom, of course. You see it in sports, politics, business... just about every human endeavor. It's just a matter of finding a coping mechanism for it. In the case of fandom, I tend to stay out of the discussions for the most part and read the fic instead, which works for me. (And do my own share of quiet sneering at OTPs, I hope you notice *wink* although I've read some wonderful stories by proponents of them.)

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

OTPs and Mary Sues are part of that fannish pupa stage, but something that surprises me is how some fans remain in that stage even though they've been extremely active in fandom for years and years. In some ways it seems like a way of viewing the world as centered on relationships.

As you pointed out, fandom is pretty much like every other part of life, we just have to find the places we like the most and stake our claim there. It's easier on the blood pressure, if nothing else.

And where would we be without quiet sneering while stil enjoying the fic-ly fruits? It's not that our opinions are better than anyone else's, except for when they totally are. *giggle*

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

I'm also really, really zen about pairings. Not to the point where good writing can overcome a pairing I simply don't want, (although yes, there is the occasional story, or the fic will convince me of a pairing I never thought I wanted). I want the pairings I want. But I simply don't want to spend energy worrying about what pairings other people are into.

If someone only wants to read gen, or only read slash, or only read het, I'm cool with that; what gets me irritated is when people dump all over genres that aren't THEIR favorite.

Preferring Dean/shiny new spoiler char over Sam/Ruby isn't the problem; it's the excuses people make for the preference. Why can't people just say, I prefer Dean/shiny new spoiler char, I don't *like* Sam/Ruby without making excuses for THAT, and accept that the pairings have a similar squick factor, or that they simply have a preference, and leave it at that? But people often seemed inclined to defend and explain why they like what they like. Instead of just...liking it.

*sigh* As long as we're on the subject, people who ship a pairing that others have dumped on, who turn around and dump on other people's pairings? Kind of make me want to pull my router out of the wall. *sigh*

[Edited because it is Monday, and apparently, I can't type!]

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

Preferring Dean/shiny new spoiler char over Sam/Ruby isn't the problem; it's the excuses people make for the preference.

Yes, exactly, what you said. Preferring one pairing over another so isn't the problem. We like what we like when we like it because that's what's turning our crank at the time. There's no sin in either having or owning our preferences. I think people would be a lot happier and cause less stress if they got over their need to justify themselves to the world at large.

Of course, one of the big problems with that justification is the fact that the way a lot of people do it is by dumping all over someone else's pairing/character. Man, I hate when people do that. Don't they realize that there's room enough in fandom for everyone and every preference? Do they think that just because there are people that like one pairing then that makes their pairing less worthy somehow? Whatever, people, just, whatever.

*throws hands in air* Oh, fandom, how so frustrating?

BWAH My brain suddenly put all of fandom on a deserted island Lord of the Flies-style. It would be bitchily awesome and would only end in tears.

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

Do they think that just because there are people that like one pairing then that makes their pairing less worthy somehow?

Yes, maybe? I mean, I'm not saying we should have to LIKE all pairings. Goodness knows I've privately rolled my eyes plenty. But fandom spends SO much energy and time on talking about what's wrong with other people's pairings. I always wonder why that can't be applied to writing more of what we do like!

My brain suddenly put all of fandom on a deserted island Lord of the Flies-style. It would be bitchily awesome and would only end in tears.

Sometimes I think we're already there. O.o

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

I, too, have done my fair share of eye-rolling. But that's what the back button is for. It's not like anyone is being forced to even acknowledge the existence of anything he/she/it doesn't like. There is no thought-police, people. Not even the NSA has that covered, yet.

Yes! Fewer wars, more writing! Fic is the answer!

Sometimes I think we're already there. O.o

We so are, aren't we? It explains so much ...

[shanghai-jim.livejournal.com]

I've read one too many of these posts from you to think you're still benefiting from being involved in the so-called "community" created by fandom. It doesn't seem worth it. Why not walk away? The only benefits I ever got from involving myself in fandom was praise for fanfiction; and that praise ultimately went to my detriment as I began to think small and write "fic" in order to attain "squee". I started writing the purportedly transgressive (as if that was something in itself to recommend it) online equivalent of Harlequin romances, without the monetary rewards of writing Harlequin romances. In harsh terms, I became less than a whore; at least a whore gets paid and keeps it professional.

And that's my fandom. You understand my implication.

Every now and then you write an entry decrying some aspect or another of your fandom of choice. From what I've observed, these are aspects of every fandom. If you can live without this so-called community—and I think we all can—then perhaps you should leave it behind and dedicate yourself to real work, whether that be writing, or law, or political activism.

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

Hey hon. First off, I really have to apologize for taking so long to reply. Your comment was so well-meaning that I didn't want to give you an off the cuff reply so I needed to determine what I wanted to say. And then it took me way too long to sit down and type it up.

You make a very good point, if I get so frustrated why do I continue to put up with all of the fandom shenanigans? The thing is, when it comes right down to it, I do get more out of fandom than it takes away. I do occassionally get fed up and frustrated with a lot of things that go on and a lot of the social hierarchies that have been constructed but I also get a lot of mindless entertainment out of it as well. So, yeah, sometimes I need to blow off steam and get my rant on but once the rant is over I feel strangely purged and ready to jump back into the fray once again.

Most importantly, I've met some of the best friends I've ever had because of this wacky sub-sub-culture. That fact in and of itself is enough to make me forgive all sorts of sins.

One of these days I probably will wander away from this arena. I'm sure there will come a point in my future when I don't have time to ponder media inanities with like-minded individuals, but right now there's a part of me that needs this space. Frankly, I need the distraction from all of the annoyances in my life. There's only so much proto-lawyering I can do before my brain melts, after all.

But, as always, we'll see what the future brings. =D

As usual, a big old WORD from me

[hiyacynth.livejournal.com]

I do not think you will find it at all surprising that I agree with you on every point above.

Fandom is, in fact, a total bitch sometimes. It has many fine qualities, and often I love it to distraction. It has, after all, brought me many fine friends. For that alone, I will always forgive it it's moronitude. And sometimes that moronitude is such that one has to stomp and flap and let one's inner bitch out to do the does-not-play-well-with-others thing. It's just the way of fandom.

But all that said, I am often flummoxed by the flexible standards. Witness my slack-jawed agreement when you pointed out the utterly true fact that people freak about Ruby/anyone because the host is being raped, but that we (meaning you and I) have yet to see anyone express the same concern for Castiel's host body and whether it is raped. Witness also the numerous accounts I've heard of fangirls who write gen or het stories being shunned, taunted, and generally rudely treated at various fandom conventions.

Anyway, blah blah blah. I just keep repeating yourself back to you.

Oh, and re: your footnote. WORD. One of the things that makes my face the saddest is a never ending story that reads like "The Young and the Restless" watches--where it takes a full week's worth of shows to get through a cup of coffee because every time they come back from commercial, they repeat the last 2/3 of the conversation they were having before the commercial.

In sum: I adore you.

Re: As usual, a big old WORD from me

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

You are, of course, utterly right. Fandom is like the epitome of the Smeagol dilemma (ie; loves and hates the Ring, yadda yadda yadda). And it's true, I'll always take the bad because the good is so freaking fantastic.

However, the fact that gen and het writers have been horribly treated at fandom conventions makes me see red. What, not writing gay porn makes us not edgy enough to hang out with the cool kids? There is absolutely no excuse for such behavior.

For the permanent record, you well know how upset I'd be if the reverse were also happening. Fans should never treat other fans shittily simply for having different stories to tell.

In sum: I adore you, too.

Re: As usual, a big old WORD from me

[jonnyonaquest.livejournal.com]

It's been ages since I went to MediaWest, I'll admit, but I do remember one person who got her little pink nose out of joint because she didn't get to sit at the table with some other people -- never mind that they'd politely explained that they were waiting for someone they'd promised the seat (who turned up an hour late, looking like she'd been through a tornado.) Little Pink Nose was unappeased however, decided she'd not been granted the seat for a totally specious reason, and then rehearsed the details of the indignity to anyone who'd listen for the remainder of the con. So I tend to take the "I got snubbed" thing with a grain of salt. And when it's a friend of a friend story I get out the whole salt shaker. It may happen (yes, there WAS a guy who left his baby in the car seat on the top of the car in Massachusetts one day and started down the highway) but I'll bet it doesn't happen often. The stories multiply, though.

There are a fair number of religious fans out there who just plain can't reconcile slash with the rest of their lives, and I'm willing to bet there are a lot of slash writers who can't admit to anyone in their homes or communities that they like the stuff, so chances are everyone gets picked on sooner or later. The most you can do about that sort of thing is cut it off when you witness it. Steer the conversation back to neutral if possible, or haul out your flag of Switzerland and say, "I'm heading for neutral ground and ice cream! Anyone wanna come?" Works pretty good.

Re: As usual, a big old WORD from me

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. I've certainly been in fandom long enough to know that there are more than a few fans who construe things way overbroadly and take offense over statements that weren't even meant about either them or their topic du jour. I also know that fans of all stripes can be defensive, especially about subjects that might make people outside of fandom look at them strangely, and so say things that are rather inflammatory.

Fandom is kind of like society concentrated. And while there are enough diplomatic people around to keep our crazy little sub-culture relatively cohesive, there are also people who try to stir things up just to stir things up.

Personally, even though this post suggests otherwise, I know, I tend to live and let live. I have a pretty laissez faire attitude about people in general and so haven't ever been in the middle of any big hullaballoo. But sometimes I just need to let off some steam because as much as I love fandom it also occasionally drives me nuts. But then I go right back to loving it.

Did that make any kind of sense? I know I can come off as a complete bitter old fandom queen, at times, but I try really hard to not be a bitch. ;-)

[lame-pegasus.livejournal.com]

...and I know I hate it when people try to tell me how to write, but writing a 60 part story that is the equivalent of 10 parts of actual plot/character development/meat interspersed with 50 parts of stagnation will cause me to personally send you a red pen.

WORD. I'm a typical author with word diarrhea, but thankfully enough I have a great beta who already owns a red pen. *grins* And I would like to quote a sentence I posted in my profile somewhere: "I'm not interested in ships. All I want to see is good stories."

And I didn't forget your SPN-fic. It is bookmarked, and I will try to catch up as soon as possible.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Me? Red Pen? ME?! *falls off chair, giggling*

You've got to be kidding, dearie. I'm the writer who took 72,000 words and 28 chapters to tell a story that essentially happens in the space of 24 hours, remember?

[lame-pegasus.livejournal.com]

Ha Ha. You're the one who constantly says: "You don't need this, you don't need that." Okay, and then you go and write your own version, and somehow it gets a bit longer than my own. *grins*

And in Yet another Snape meets the Dursleys-story every single word was necessary. *smiles* Which is what makes all the difference between word diarrhea and a great tale.

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

I, like you, would be in a world of trouble without my own terrific beta. They really are the ones who make this whole crazy writing-thing possible. ;-)

The story is all! If I were a polytheist I'd build a temple to it and worship it before all other gods. *nods*